IF you fire your Gun....

“Ayoob...I'd take his advice anytime....


If you are involved in a Self Defense shooting use only the amount of force required to repel or stop an armed attack.

Take the following steps only after you are sure the threat has been neutralized, if possible secure the weapon used by the assailant.

Check yourself and bystanders for injuries, call Police and ask for Emergency Medical help before taking further action,remember the investigation starts with the recorded phone call to Police, only ask for help, describe what has happened,
give your location and identify yourself, do not say anything else or make statements that could be used against you later,don't give details of the incident over the phone, hang up.

Do not discuss the incident with bystanders. Make a complete check of the scene, however do not remove or tamper with evidence.

If the attacker has been shot and has been disarmed, and no longer a threat try and assess his injuries and render first-aid if possible.

Do not talk to or taunt the suspect or use abusive or racially charged language that could haunt you in court later.

Don't touch the assailant if he appears dead.

Don't let anyone else handle or touch evidence- keep bystanders back, secure your weapon, and unless you are a uniformed security officer keep it out of sight, innocent people have been accidentally shot by responding Police because
of misunderstanding when officers arrived on scene and saw people holding weapons, try and spot them first and attract their attention in a non-threatening manner.

At first responding Police may treat you as a suspect by disarming and handcuffing you, follow Police instructions to the letter, do not argue, resist or question their actions, there will be time to straighten out the facts later, do as you are told.

Make no statements until speaking with an attorney, any thing you say will be used in the investigation, put your request for legal advice in a form Police will understand, relate to, and not hold against you such as " I know a storekeeper who shot a robber and got sued", I think I should talk to a lawyer first.

Be firm but polite that you will make no statements until you speak to an attorney, remember that any thing you say will be used against you later.

When Fire Rescue or Paramedics arrive get medical treatment for shock for yourself even if you think you don't need it.

Do not speak to reporters or the media for any reason.

Advise your attorney not to make statements to the press on your behalf.

Remember the media has no authority, do not speak to them, why give them a chance to twist your statement around or portray you as a vigilante or worse!

Never apologize for defending your life, or that of another.

Never make statements to Police or anyone else such as " I'm sorry I had to shoot, I regret this had to happen," you appear remorseful therefor your actions were inappropiate.

Such bungling statements could cost you big time later in a court of law, a grand jury hearing, or coroners inquest, and could give the suspect or his family a legal basis for a civil trial for damages, keep your mouth shut.

Persons involved in shooting incidents face a great amount of stress.

Psychological problems can sometimes appear even weeks or months after an incident, and phyiscal one's such as

Sleeplessness, headaches, diarrhea, heart problems and others sometimes occur, they are common and affect even trained law enforcement and military. Seek professional medical and pyschological advice.

For more information contact the Lethal Force Institute P.O.Box 122 Concord New Hampshire 03302-0122 1-800-624-9049.www.ayoob.com
last edited: 2/08/07 2:44:19 PM”

“Ayoob is pretty well respected. Most of what he says is in that article is on target. Common sense goes a long way in the type of situation he discusses.

I like John Steinbeck's view:

"The final weapon is the brain, all else is supplemental." -John Steinbeck.
last edited: 2/08/07 2:54:03 PM”

“Print and keep the above advice.

All burglars who survive deadly force necessary to prevent their crime will be given a free lawyer who will counsel the criminal as to how to beat the charges and will also counsel the criminal as to the merits of suing the homeowner. There is nothing wrong for the homeowner to speak through a lawyer.”

“Sounds like we shouldn't reload after the six are fired into the body.”

“prosecutor...I guess that is the part the really ticks me off. The Scum can hire scum who will sue the innocent.”

“Yeah, or you can just run away before the police arrive. Always use a barrel that can't be traced back to your gun, and always pay cash for ammunition, and always wear gloves when loading mags. You should be scott free!”

“XL400236, in the case I prosecuted, the photographs the victim took at the scene proved that the criminal's story that he was walking outside when the enraged homeowner came out, accused him falsely of being a burglar, was untrue. The burglar got five years in the penitentary, the exact number the victim wanted. When I called Allstate to tell them the Burgalr-Plaintiff plead guilty to the burglary and was sent to the penitentary, they assured me that would end the matter conclusively.

Mutt, the police ain't stupid. Tampering with evidence and lying to the police will make matters worse. If it truly is self defense, tell the first officer who responds that "I read of a case where the burglar who got shot sued the homeowner, and the prosecutor of the burglar suggested that the homeowner should talk to his own lawyer before answering questions". Do not admit to being the shooter. Say absolutely nothing else as if you do not understand English. The police may arrest you. The police may try some really nifty ways to make you change your mind and talk or say something. The police can hold you incomunicado for up to 72 hours before you see a Judge. In their hearts, the police will respect you better by you keeping silent. That silence is a genuine sign that the shooting was legally justified, because the homeowner has nothing to fear with the full weight of the criminal justice system about to decend upon his shoulders. No lies need be made up and told. Your lawyer will have you out of jail within three days, and you have best minimized the infinitesimal chances of a miscarriage of justice.

If on the other hand, you killed the intruder as an act of revenge after he was either disarmed or disabled, you might as well try to talk your way out of it and see what story will evoke a modicum of sympathy from the police.”

“Hmm, I thought the rules about firing your gun were:

1. Don't shoot him in the back.
2. Always keep a knife in the house that doesn't go with your set.”

“...since our society is so litigious, I always thought it would be best to shoot the attacker dead (so he can't sue you) and fire a warning shot....Although I guess you're supposed to fire a warning shot, then shoot the bastard dead. Whatever, Shoot first ask questions later. Seems safer...you just need a good defense attorney :)”

“Don't waste a round on a warning shot. It's useless in court as a defense, and it reduces by one the number of rounds you have to protect your life if necessary.”

“I remember when we used to play
Bang-bang, shoot-em-up

Or maybe it was:
Shoot-em-up, bang-bang
last edited: 2/09/07 6:58:41 AM”

“I kept pushing for a law that would absolve civilians from CIVIL Liability in a case where they were interveneing in stopping a felony.

This way if I see a robbery and I use my Truck to stop the robber...yeah the cops can arrest me and try me for whatever...(like a jury is going to convict me) but the scum or his family cannot keep up litigious crap hoping for a "settlement".

prosecutor, I have a close friend who had a case where some scum broke INTO his house. Had tied up his children and he got loose. In the ensuing action he managed to get a shot off that paralyzed the guy. Well the guy's "woman" got some P.O.S. with a law license to begin filing actions. Eventually my friend won...but it cost him THOUSANDS to defend himself.

I truly think if we could get the Lawyers (no offence here prosecutor) and other bottom feeders to have to carry liability insurance which we could then go after if their clients could not pay legal fees...we would see the BS lawsuits drop off.”

“"diarrhea"?”

“.....in a perfect world.............”

“I have been in a few situations where I may have used my weapon. I'm still here however without having used a weapon. What would the outcome had been If I did engage? Would I still be here. I have had a gun waved not pointed at me (I was unarmed) and I have witnessed a murder (I was armed but in my vehicle).


In the unarmed incident I was in a scuba diving shop taking lessons. A disgruntled exemployee's husband came into the shop demanding money saying his wife didn't get all of her last paycheck. He got into a scuffle with the owner, the owner won the scuffle and the the guy left. The owner shook it off and probably intended to forget the incident. About 20 minutes later the guy returned to the shop with a gun. There was limited cover and concealment available. I dove behind a glass display case. The guy is yelling at the shop owner and waving the gun around. I'm looking for weapons and there are none to be found where I am, unfortunately the knives and spearguns are on the other side of the room. I'm by the regulators. Anyway if I had been armed I could have capped this guy from 10 feet and probably would have. It turns out that the guy cooled down and walked out on his own. The police arrested him at his home 10 minutes later. My involvement with the police was about a 15 minute interview, he pled guilty to assault with a deadly weapon and that was that. Had I been armed and shot the guy I would have been involved in lenghty and expensive legal dealings. It was unknown to any of us at the time but the guy had no intention of using the weapon. His wife had been fired, he just got his azz whipped and he was pissed. Grabbing that gun could have gotten him killed, I think he was too stupid to realize that.

Case two murder:

I was the lone car at a redlight at about 7:00 am. To my right is a used car lot. I see two men the second armed with a shotgun run through the lot about 30 feet from me. The guy with the shot gun shoots the guy running and the guy goes down. At this point I don't know what to think. The guy on the ground is not dead however and attempts to get up waving his arms for mercy. The guy with the shotgun levels off from less than 10 feet and fires again killing him. This happen in the matter of 2 to 3 seconds but is burned in my brain forever. I was armed and by this time my pistol was in my hand. But knowing it was too late to get involved I punched the gas pedal instead. I drove to a payphone about 200 yards down the road and called the police. I then told them I was leaving the scene for my own safety. As luck would have it the guy got in his car and drove right past me just as I was getting in my vehicle. I was able to describe the car to the police and he turned out to be the neighbor of the guy that was shot. He was arrested at his home. This all started over a dog knocking over trash cans believe it or not. Now even though I didn't fire a shot I was involved. I didn't tell the police that I was armed because they didn't ask. It ended up being a long drawn out case. I however only had to testify as a witness not as a defendant because I didn't fire a shot. I considered my vehicle more of an asset than my weapon. If I would have had to I would have certainly used my weapon. I was carrying a .30 caliber Ruger single action Blackhawk. He was carrying a 12 guage shotgun and had the potential for at least 3 more shots. I was certainly outgunned so using my weapon could have gotten me killed. Once again I had an option so I took it. I think driving off was the smart thing to do. I doubt even a singel police officer would have engaged without backup in my situation. So before you fire that shot THINK!”

“batty, you were armed and didnt come out guns a blazin? what kind of liberal commie pinko nancy are you?

charlton heston called. he wants your nra card back

:-D”

“You were absolutely correct in your actions. The ONLY time we are to take force is when we can not evade and harm is inevitable. Many times we can just exacerbate the situation if we jump the gun...so to speak. I know of no one who actually wants to have to shoot someone and if they do they should not be allowed to carry.
last edited: 2/09/07 9:03:50 AM”

“Statistically, only one time in a hundred times that a gun is pulled in self defense does the armed citizen actually fire the weapon. In 99% of those self defense situations, the criminal will flee upon sight of the gun. When a gun is actually fired, only 1 out of 100 shots will end up killing the assailant.

Only one state legally requires one to retreat before exercising the right of self defense with deadly force. In the other 49 states, the armed citizens have the option of using deadly force in self defense without retreating first.

Thinking before shooting is excellent advise. But when one is in reasonable apprehension that they are about to be killed or suffer great bodily harm and deadly force is necessary to prevent that, then nothing beats killing the assailant in self defense.”

“That unmistakible 'kerCHUNK' sound a pump shotgun makes as you chamber a round is something that all bad guys know and fear.”

“What one state would that be Prosecutor?”

“Here in Ohio you have to prove you could not flee the situation.

only 1 out of 100 shots will end up killing the assailant.

I gotta get me a bigger mag!”

“I think in most states while in a public place, you must prove that retreat wasn't an option. However I believe that at least one state requires you to flee your own domicile rather than defend it against an intruder. That includes your home AND your car. Any attorneys care to weigh in?”

“fired his handgun into the ground

*facepalm*”

“New Hampshire”

“Does not surprise me.”

“I think NH just recently adopted the castle doctrine (A man's home is his castle and he can defend himself). It used to be that if you had someone break in, you were required to flee your own home, and force was only allowed if trapped into a corner. Talk about giving crooks the upper hand.

This man was not reckless as he fired his gun into the ground, and not the air where it will come down who knows where. But they see nothing wrong with arresting a man doing a good thing......”

“"Don't touch the assailant if he appears dead."

Shouldn't that be "Don't touch the dead assailant. The county has people trained to get rid of that for you." ?”