Lets talk about the AT

“Like this? http://www.cabelas.com/hiking-staffs-cabelas-alaskan-guide-hiking-staff-1.shtml

..not lite at all.”

“wrt stuff added to trekking poles - probably OK for shorter trips but IMO its a lot like the old saying about boots - "a pound on your feet is like five pounds in your pack" - in other words one wants to minimize up and down motion of weight which is wasted energy - thus the trend toward lighter weight poles and shoes which will have move motion applied to them than one's pack which hopefully is not going up and down as much with every step and thus conserving the momentum as forward motion”

“Hm I can see your point. Still,since you have to still be able to comfortably hold them in your hands, you'd be talking really minimal space, probably smaller than the diameter of the average film canister. While I agree, more information is required regarding exact relative weights, I can comfortably state the current handles aren't weightless. It would seem to me the answer might more properly be to keep whatever you put in there light and something you'd want easy access to for specific purposes. For me, that would probably be mole skin and bandages or waterproof bandages and wax-soaked cotton balls. Those items are pretty light, certainly in the realm of the weight of a solid wood or plastic handle.”

“These things are amazing. Once you've held them in your hands you'll know nothing compares:

http://gossamergear.com/trekking/trekking/lt3c-trekking-poles.html


One of the first things I learned as a backpacker was that a bic lighter was much more reliable than any kind of match. I know a lot of people carry waterproof matches but I've never understood it.”

“for the most part I agree - I always had a couple small BIC lighters with me on the AT ... but I also carried a small container of strike on box matches - they were easier to light the alcohol stove with when the temps were cold - I used an open container for the burner so to light it in the cold was simply a matter of lighting the match then touching the match to the surface of the alcohol (don't dunk it will put the match out) The other thing about lighters is that if they get wet they generally did not light very well at all so the matches were a backup.

I did not do many campfires - too much effort at the end of the day so I did not carry a dedicated fire starter but it was not a problem since I always had olive oil and toilet paper - to make a fire starter make a "cup" of TP in your hand, pour in however much oil you think will be needed, gather the top of the "cup" up to form a tear drop shape and make sure some oil is up in the top of the drop - this is the wick - place fire starter in middle of finger sized sticks in the fire pit and light the top - burns quite well and depending on the amount of oil can burn for up to 15 minutes with a good oil flame”

“toejam: Those do look light! Now I just have to figure out the right length.

Hog On Ice: That olive oil trick is an old but good one that works well. I've been sort of planning to carry a small amount of olive oil with me. They sell these single packs of brownie mix and you can whip them up in a cup with just some oil & water. You can make your own mix from the coffee mug brownie recipe. Although we called it camp mug brownies when I was in Girl Scouts. One thing Girl Scouts knew how to do was make good eats over camp stoves and camp fires.

In other news, made a trip to the gear resale shop and a couple of new gear outfitters. I'm trying to get enough gear pulled together for a 20 mile hike on the most challenging trail over on Lake Texoma soon. I ended up liking different rain gear than I expected because it felt more comfortable when I tried it on. I was going to pick up a sleeping bag, but haven't decided yet between two. I've never used a bag with a hoodie. On the other hand, I've never camped in a light tent in cold weather. Still debating would I like the hood.”

“I use a down balacava and no hood on my sleep system (Nunatak Arc Alpinist and Down Balaclava) - see http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/garments/balaclava.htm - perhaps something similar would work for you. Another similar product that unfortunately I have not seen in person is the Finbar Hood - see http://www.finnovations.org/ - this product uses synthetic insulation instead of down.

wrt rain gear I used Packa (think combined pack cover and jacket) - note that in general rain gear is only useful in camp - if hiking one might as well just get wet cause hiking with rain gear on just means you will get wet anyways with sweat. In my case I did make exceptions for when it was particularly cold and I was getting into the first stage of hypothermia. Rain pants were basically only useful to have something to wear while washing the rest of ones clothes.
last edited: 1/24/12 5:30:13 PM”

“That Balaclava is sheer brilliance. I think there might be some medieval knights who beg to differ with Finn as to who invented a hood like that, but still a pretty smart idea.

I was actually looking at rain chaps, not pants, based on my previous experience. I only wear rain gear when the weather is also chilly as well as wet. I was thinking there might be times when I'd be happy to keep my legs dry, though.”

“yeah I know what you mean - I remember a section of trail maintained by Virginia Tech club that mostly resembled a 3 mile long car wash after a rain

one thing that I carried for emergency use as a vapor barrier was a 30 gallon trash bag - I have heard of some hikers using that as a rain "skirt".
last edited: 1/26/12 4:10:21 AM”

“haven't seen crash on here in a while...didn't he use a contrail on his thru hike?

as far as sleeping pads go, if you get one, get a 1/2 or 3/4 length...the full size ones are just added weight that isn't necessary...it's your torso/hips that need the extra padding and warmth, not your legs”

“I've missed most of this'un. I'll go back and read it sometime, I'm just plain wore out tonight.”

“I think I mentioned using a trash bag rain skirt - per JERMM there is a more formalized product that has more uses: a rain wrap - see http://jjmatheshikes.blogspot.com/2011/06/rain-wraps.html”

“I wonder which is lighter, the trash bag or the rain skirt thing? I sort of lean toward a trash bag over a rain skirt since among other things you wouldn't feel bad throwing it out if it got all messy. On the other hand gotta assume that rain skirt is more durable if there are a lot of wet bushes, etc.

Went shopping for a backpack last night. I think this may turn out more difficult than I'd hoped. I went to the biggest outfitter in my area and they had a grand total of 6 different backpacks to fit my torso. The lightest was incredibly uncomfortable on me, which was really disappointing. I had it tops on my list of possibles. They didn't have any others on my list. I was told this is the "off season" though, and I should come back in April for more selection.

Anyone here have one of the Terra Nova ultra-lightweights like the Ultra 20? If so, what's your opinion?”

“A backpack might not be the best place to save weight. You want a pack that handles the weight you plan on carrying comfortably, you'll be carrying it a long time.”

“I agree with 1camper. Although I love my GoLite Jam, which I think is 1.5 pounds, the thing maxes out at about 24 pounds and pulls something awful. I only use this pack for extended weekend or summer trips.

My Osprey Ariel, which is a women's pack, is over 4 pounds and without a doubt, the most comfortable pack I have ever owned. I can easily carry 30 pounds (w/ food and water) which is about what I start out with for one week in the winter. Most importantly, I have confidence in this pack that it won't let me down half way through my trip.”

“wrt trash bag vs rain wrap weight:

rain wrap from Etowah is 2.5 ounce
rain kilt from ULA is 2.9 ounce

contractor's trash bag weighs about 6 ounces - I use this as a pack liner and part of my cold weather hammock setup (goes between hammock and under quilt as a wind block)

ordinary trash bag is about 1 ounce”

“Creek Dancer: the most comfortable pack I tried on was a GoLite. I tried two different Osprey, and they were without a doubt the most uncomfortable things I ever tried on. I suspect had I felt comfortable taking time to adjust them in that shop, they might have been better. Is it normally acceptable behavior to adjust packs to fit you in the store in order to try them on? Should I return them to some sort of median normal when I finish?

Shopping for gear has turned into one of the most disheartening experiences I have ever had. I first went to the largest outdoor outfitter in my area. The place is huge, bigger than any walmart I've ever been in. Almost nothing I looked at had a weight on it. The packs all had prominent signage regarding how great they were for storing ammo and how readily available your weapon would be carried in this pack. There was no women's section and when I asked about women's packs, I was pointed to the Junior Packs section. A couple of the packs there were labeled women's. After a while, a couple of clerks came over to talk to my husband and I. First, they chatted him up about was he taking me hunting with him. They seemed rather disgusted when he told them no, he doesn't hunt, and he isn't really planning to join me hiking. Then I asked some questions about the volume of the pack I was trying on and the weight of it. One of them sneered at me and said if I wanted to worry about weight I probably needed to shop their online store. Both clerks then turned their backs on me and sauntered off. When I checked their website later, I found there is no women's section of packs there either.

We proceeded to the next largest outfitter, but by this time it was getting a bit late. Although they had what appeared to be a fair-sized women's pack section, it turned out to be populated by only six different packs, each available in about four different colors. They had only two clerks in the store, both working checkouts, and both professed to me they'd never been backpacking in their lives. I was told I am shopping in the off-season? They said I should come back in a few weeks when they will have a specialist on hand earlier on Saturdays. Despite the difficulty, I did manage to purchase some rain gear, light and medium long john sets, and a couple of shirts from clearance quite inexpensively, so it wasn't a total loss. They tell me they have a big "garage sale" on the 12th, and I should come then to get really good deals. Apparently everything now on clearance not sold by then is marked down again on that day.”

“Shop someplace else.. Any twin stay internal frame pack should be adjusted to your torso length FIRST. Then loaded with the weight you expect to carry distributed in the way you would carry it.

Just buy a pack online, measure yourself: http://www.mchalepacks.com/packs/detail/measure.htm

Then load your stuff in and hike. Don't get it dirty and send back the ones you don't like. Don't do your pack buying based on who is closest to your geographical location..lol. Lots of good packs out there but many of the lightest ones won't have adjustable aluminum stays. I'd recommend them but I'm sure others may feel differently.”

“Finding an pack that fits correctly is like finding a pair of boots that fit correctly. What fits one person perfectly may be an awful fit on another.

But you are right. If you had the opportunity to adjust the pack correctly, you may have had a better fit. Generally the packs arrive in the store all cinched up. You have to release and extend all of the straps, including the hip belt and all of the compressions straps all the way out. Then adjust all those straps to fit, starting with the hip belt. I think REI has a video on how to do this.

Good luck!!”

“Yeah, I've had the same 'Why is this cinched to fit a toddler?" problem a lot of places. I figure as long as you don't do silly things like leave'em lay around on the floor to trip people when you're done, they have to be used to people adjusting things. I ended up with one of those ultra-lightweights, but I've got a bit of a long torso. Seemed like the lighter they were, the less torso adjustable they came. Not a problem if they are your fit, but I think they'd get annoying real fast if they were the wrong fit. That REI video saved me a ton of headache trying to figure why I hated all the one's I'd tried. When you fit them to you incorrectly, of course they're going to rub you in all the wrong way.”

“I ended up changing out my Gear Skin pack in Damascus - the pack was good when I had a CCF pad to stiffen it up but when I switch out to just using the under quilt the Gear skin was pretty much killing my shoulders due to lack of support. The pack I picked up was a Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone - it worked well for me and had a very easily adjustable frame sheet construction that covered a broad range of sizes. Only problem I had was that after I adjusted it I had to make sure to tighten the screws in the frame sheet every day until I got some Loctite - no problem once I Loctited the screws. Before I realized that this was a problem I lost one of the screws - this kinda sucked but I was able to get a small biner into the hole in the frame sheet and hook up the shoulder strap with the biner.”

“an interesting resource:

http://www.pmags.com/a-quick-and-dirty-guide-to-the-appalachian-trail”

“Not only should you adjust the pack, but you should take your gear with you, pack the backpack and walk around the store...

If you cant do that, most good outfitters will provide you with gear to put in the pack, or even bags of sand etc for weight..

I admit im bias to Osprey, but to me they are probably the best packs out there...

'32oz”

“My wife bought an Osprey before our trip last summer. She did as you suggested. She really thought the UL line of Ospreys were uncomfortable compared to the heavier ones. They had web hipbelts, less backpadding and handled weight differently to her.”

“Hey all, been off working for some mon-nay to pay for renewing my old obsession. I broke down and ordered a Granite Gear women's pack I ran across on sale. It had good reviews and seemed a reasonable weight. Should be here any day.

Hog on Ice, thanks for the link to that quick guide. Nice to have something to read up on when I have a little down time. I really love the quote about the purpose of the AT.

To walk, to see. To see what you see.
-Benton MacKaye

Happy Valentines to everyone. We're celebrating by hiking out to join some friends around a hickory fire to grill shrimp, lobster, and broccolini, plus whatever the friends bring to share. My Sweet Baboo isn't really a hiker, but will hike a bit for seafood. Now, if only I could come up with a way to haul fresh seafood on the AT. Hmmmm.... Hehe!

And speaking of friends, I have to remember to ask a guest one of our friends is bringing along for his trail name. He thru-hiked the AT about 25-30 years ago, and the PCT the following year. I can't wait to meet him!”

“JERMM's latest is on trail hygiene http://jjmatheshikes.blogspot.com/”

“Gertie, You mentioned that you have a dehydrator. I highly recomend the book "Lipsmackin Backpackin" by Tim and Christine Conners. It is a cook book full of recipes that have been trail tested by long distance hikers. I have it and love it! There is also a vegetarian version. Both books are on amazon.”

“for that matter Sarbar's book is good for that too - see http://www.trailcooking.com/

on the other hand logistics of using dehydrated meals on a long hike are sometimes annoying since you generally would be dealing with a lot of mail drops - my choice was to just resupply at the stores along the way and leave the bounce box for things like meds and hard to find items - I didn't have it sent to each town either - every 1-200 miles was good enough”

“Oooh thanks for the hygiene and food links! I've been looking into the hygiene stuff a bit, expecting to at least need to carry some sort of wet wipes with me. I had run across that trailcooking website. I've been trying a few of the recipes and can vouch for the carrot cake oatmeal breakfast. I also made one of the chicken recipes using some leftover chicken. It was delish!

I think you may be onto something with that not trying to mail drop everywhere due to logistics overload and whatnot, Hog On Ice. I had been trying to determine if maybe I could just choose a few favored essentials to dehydrate and carry as something along the lines of emergency backup plan perhaps. Then I thought I would see if I could just do mail drops in a few key places.

I saw on the board here about the requirement for bear canisters or whatever they call them this year. I suppose it doesn't absolutely mean they will be required next year, but I plan to just test one for size in my new pack. The granite gear pack arrived in time for our day hike on Valentine's Day, so I stuck all the gear I'd accumulated so far, plus all the food we were hauling in it when we went out. With all the packaging for the food, had 28 pounds in there and was amazed how little I felt it. My shoes, on the other hand, need more wearing in. Moleskin is my very bestest friend in the world! haha!”

“Allie, is that you? -*prods cheesypoof with a capped trek pole gently*-

Those granite gear packs are just the bee's knees, though.

On a more AT chatter note, I hiked 8 miles Wednesday on a trail out by Late Texoma. I was ok until the evening of the next day....then ow ow ow! I need to hike more, more often for sure if I'm going to be ready for the AT.”

“how are you wrt NSAIDs Gertie

I have to be somewhat careful with them so I only take them with considerable reluctance - ibuprofen (aka Vitamin I) in particular tends to eat my stomach - naproxen sodium is less of a problem with me. But that said it may be worth while to take some with you on your long hike to help get past the startup pains and to get some sleep at night early on.”

“Drat, that should have been "Lake Texoma". Then again, perhaps that is a reflection on how long I took hiking it. I've never had a problem with NSAIDs as yet, Hoggy, but some of my friends and relatives have developed tummy sensitivity to them over time, so I am extra cautious. I do plan on taking some when I hike the AT, for certain. I figure anyone will think about quitting if they are sore for a while, so I'll just do what I can to prevent some of that. I just don't take it when it is a one day thing. Since I'm able to rest up after, soreness is thankfully fleeting. I think I got sore after the 8 miles mostly because it is so wet and there was a lot of slipping and sliding about due to the mud. I do want to ask hyway what were the things he mentioned in his journal putting on over his shoes for traction. One of the guys I hiked with had those heavy rubber bands from produce like broccoli over his shoes with some sort of very small nails pointing into the ground through them. He used four per foot. One around the toe box, one around the heel, and one on each side of the foot running between the first two to hold them on. They seemed to work remarkably well.”

“the neatest thing I ever heard of for traction was what Flying Brian did on his triple crown hike - he used short sheet metal screws that he would screw into his shoes

for winter hiking I will generally carry Kathoola MicroSpikes for icy trails but for a long hike I would probably not carry them - weight is a little high for the limited need”

“Well, it has to be said. Drat and tarnation! When is someone gonna invent a hover-cart to carry our gear on when we hike? Then we won't have to worry about weight!”

“Goats Gertie”

“New toys are on the way tonight for me to try out with an eye to next year's hike. I found a pair of "Komperdell Vibrastop Titanal Somo Poles" for $48 on some sort of clearance out website. I'm a little nervous ordering from some overstock site I've never heard of before, but a girlfriend said the only difficulty she's experienced ordering more typical household products from them is they ship slow. I also got a North Face Terra 45 pack for $63 and free shipping on the lot. If I like the pack, I may return the other pack I bought at over three times the price. Suspect it will end up a good weekend pack, though, which would be excellent for the price.

I've been working with the dehydrator quite a bit. I decided the best thing would be to try a small assortment now, then concentrate on what seems to work best. I did strawberry and banana slices first because I love those. Right now I am using a small old pot with missing handle for my camp cooking, so I filled it with hot water, powdered milk, oatmeal, and the dehydrated banana and strawberry slices. Wrapped in the neoprene wrap I made for it, I find I can drive out to the lake here and everything is just right by the time I hike out to the overlook for an excellent breakfast.

My experiment with deer meat jerky didn't end well. The taste was great, but it just wasn't tender as it should be. I think I should have listened to my old lady friend and not my health food crazed girlfriend. I'm going to soak the other batch in buttermilk overnight after thawing well for tenderness.

I picked up a couple of poly blend exercise shirts on clearance at Target for $3 each. Complete with 'rapid wicking, ultra rapid drying, and anti-bacterial woven in the fabric to prevent odor", which has me curious. What is all this anti-bacterial woven in? While I am asking about the mysteries of backpacker life, why does it automatically cost more if you say it is for women? Even if it is the exact same product, just shorter thus using less material? Truly a mystery of backpacker life!”

“I buy merino wool shirts on eBay for less than $10. Very comfortable for hiking not clammy like synthetics, also dries fast and hand washes well.

http://shop.mobileweb.ebay.com/searchresults?kw=merino+wool+sweater&x=16&y=16&cmd=SKW”

“I also like the wool base layer stuff but it does tend to wear out faster - for example I only got about 6 weeks continuous use out of a pair of merino wool briefs before they fell apart after being washed.

wrt to the resupply discussion - another nice take on it is here: http://thru-hiker.com/articles/resupply_options.php”

“Thanks 1camper, I ordered one to try out in advance. My skin is a little weird about wools for some reason. If they are comfy for my skin, I like wool. I think these other shirts I got might be better for summer use.

Hog On Ice, thanks for the link. I like that he opens with one of my big concerns. How to predict where I will be when. I don't want to over pack foodstuffs too much, but I want to be prepared in case of a minor setback. Hopeful some freeze dried foods I buy and some dehydrated foods I make myself might serve as a couple of backup meals to keep for just such an emergency.”

“

"I only got about 6 weeks continuous use out of a pair of merino wool briefs before they fell apart after being washed. ...Hog On Ice
"

Wow! Six weeks of continuous use would wear out almost any brief. I bet you really smelt ripe.”

“At the end of 6 weeks, I bet the smell was more like "halfway to compost."”

“Dang! NS and tree beat me to the joke!
LOL”

“LD hikers are not the sweetest smelling folks - frankly I didn't really notice the briefs rotting away until they were washed at one of the town stops”

“I don't know as I'd admit that publicly, Hog On Ice. But then, I can be a bit of a girlie girl. Probably some sort of honor badge is issued to men that do things like that.”

“men/women - not a lot of difference on the trail - everyone stinks after a while and they get used to the smell”

“I'm sure I'll stink on the trail. Doesn't mean I'm gonna brag about it. hehe”

“Brian's backpacking blog's latest entry has a good interview with an author of a book about the mental aspects of the hike : http://www.briangreen.net/2012/03/appalachian-trials-interview-with-zach.html”

“In the video 2000 miles to main a female thruhiker talks about women wearing skirts with no underwear and just hiking their leg to pee just like guys do.

I am sure some were girlie girls when the started :).”

“ewwwwwww”

“nothing new - there is even a book about it and several you tube vids

http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews/how-to-pee-standing-up-tips-for-hip-chicks

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RECKSNkFxwM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBiift_rbLQ”