Lets talk about the AT

“I posted this under "chatter" because I hope to find a few people to chatter with about the AT with a view to my own hopes. After lets just say 'several' years of not hiking nearly as much as I'd like, I have a strong hankering to get back to basics and take on a challenge. While we've done family day hikes over the years, I haven't had a good stay out there in too long. This year, I am working on getting out there for some shorter weekend hikes with a view to building up my stamina and equipment in time for a run at an AT thru-hike next year. I'd love to hear stories about long hikes, the AT, and the like. If you have a very favorite piece of gear that is an unusual must-have for long hikes, drop a post here! If you think you'll be on the AT in 2013, give a shout!

A great big hello and thanks for chatting to all who chime in!”

“some things to note for ldh

its a good idea to stretch your calf muscles, Achilles tendon, and your plantar fascia to avoid plantar fasciitis / heel spur - it may also be worth it to check with podiatrist to see if you already have heel spur developed and in which case you may want to go with some special inserts for your shoes

if you are on high blood pressure meds note that often people will need to lower dosage or eliminate the meds as the hike progresses - you get more cardio fitness and need less meds - talk over with doc so you are prepared

if you have some arthritis consider using some glucosamine sulfate during your hike - about 2000 mg more or less

if you are prone to constipation taking some extra magnesium (over 400 mg/day) can act as a fairly mild laxative and is easy to pack”

“Thank you, Hog On Ice, for some awesome hints. I had not heard that about magnesium previously.

I'm seeing a lot of positive reports on use of trek poles for protection of knees and that sort of thing. Do you use them? I've only ever used a sturdy walking stick myself. Sad to say, I'm not entirely sure trek poles were invented back in my previous hiking life. haha!”

“yes - I always use trekking poles especially these days - I sometimes need help with my balance

one other item I forgot - get shoes a little wider than you normally would use - a number of ld hikers develop problems with Morton's neuroma because they hike with shoes that are a little to tight across the metatarsals which irritates a nerve that runs between them - this can result in temporary or permanent damage - temporary is when you toes go numb for several months permanent is when you get low level constant pain or periodic sharp pains in the toes - I have a light touch of this but I know other ld hikers who end up getting operated on to cut the nerve resulting in permanent numb toes”

“I'd like to hike it too, like prolly many others around here.. I like to read the stories of those that have hiked it and tried to hike it. Never seem to tire of them.”

“well if you like hearing about a blue blazing failure I'm your man

blood pressure meds messed me up first - ended up taking a month to get them straightened out with the doc then foot trouble hit - I had previously had PF so there were some bone spurs - at the time I was using Superfeet insoles which are mostly good but have a relatively hard surface and I was getting a lot of pain from the heal spurs as a result - ended up going to a podiatrist that had thru hiked and getting some custom orthotic inserts - the problem with the mid foot nerve between the metatarsals was something I had before the hike in 09 but it was irritated a fair bit with the constant hiking - I just use thin socks and I don't lace my shoes all the way down - the orthotics also have a pad that helps some”

“Yeah, I have a bit of a fear of failure of that sort myself. Even had I been more active in hiking and backpacking in the past, not as young as I once was. Thanks for the wider shoes comment. I have read of several people saying they had to go up a shoe size or wider a shoe size during the hike. I always liked to hike in a sturdy but well worn in pair of hiking boots myself. Had a pinch of trouble with plantar fasciitis when I got serious and started just walking out around our nearby lake a year ago. A sturdy pair of hiking boots with some good inserts sure seems to have fixed me up. Doc said it was just I was lucky to nip it in the bud.

I've been working up a shopping list so I can take my time and watch out for hopefully sales on the items I really want. With my expectation of traveling solo, I know I'll have to be careful to balance the weight to need ratio pretty well. Any interesting advice as to types of food to carry on a long hike like this?”

“If it is something you really want to do, the failure is not to try.

We have some people who post who've done the AT - I've never been able to break my paycheck addiction long enough to get more than 24 days to go hiking. If I'm in backpacking shape when I retire I may try it - I don't have the passion for it at this point.”

“types of food - well here there are some decisions to be made wrt how you plan on preparing the food - first decision is whether you are going to use a stove - most ld hikers try to go as light weight in the stove area as possible which often means either no stove or an alcohol burner - I used an alcohol burner myself doing mainly what is called freezer bag cooking - this is a boil water only type of cooking as in boil water then add the boiling water to food which is in a zip lock bag in a cozy - looking back on it I think I would have been better off with a no cook/no stove approach but ...

in terms of food selection pick stuff that is calorie dense since you will be burning around 4000-6000 calories per day - honey buns at 600 calories per are one common choice - if going with a stove be sure to pack olive oil and add that to every meal you cook to improve flavor and add calories - for breakfast I usually went with oatmeal - quick oats and water without cooking with whatever flavorings I felt like adding (brown sugar typically sometimes nuts) - a lot of the evening meals were Lipton/Knorr type things - I would typically have some instant mashed potatoes handy in case the meal was a little soupy - the instant potatoes sucks up the extra water quickly - during the day I would have snacks that I could eat for an energy boost - typically candy bars like Snickers/Payday or granola bars

In terms of packweight figure around 2 pounds of food per day - this means after a resupply you will feel that your pack is too heavy as you climb that first hill going out of town - this assumes you have already reached the Hunger stage of your hike - somewhere around three or four weeks your body has often burned off ready supplies of fat and the Hunger hits - you will be hungry most of the time during this phase.
last edited: 1/09/12 9:47:46 PM”

“one more note on food - I usually aimed for about 3 ounces of protein per day - for example one Spam Single pack - which I would eat while waiting for the rest of the food to cook”

“Yeah, I was looking at some calorie need estimates and things like that. I generally don't eat much sugary sweet stuff like honey buns and candy bars, but oatmeal, nuts, dried fruits,and things of that sort go down a treat.

A friend has already offered me us of a JetBoil set. I'm a tad concerned about availability of the cartridges, but it does seem to work awfully well. I even had it outside on a damp, somewhat windy day and it did do well. If not that, I'll probably make a couple of pocket alcohol stoves out of some soda cans like I used to. I also used to carry a buddy burner made from a tuna can, cardboard, and paraffin wax as a backup. Have my eye on Esbit tabs with the little bitty fold up 'stove' thing.

I was wondering about the Lipton/Knorr things as I hear them mentioned quite a bit. I normally find them too salty, but thought that might not be a problem after sweaty hiking all day?

I've gotten pretty handy with the food dehydrator, so thought I would see about some Teriyaki beef jerky, fruit leather, and vegan oatmeal almond bars.

Goodness, I'd forgotten about The HUNGER! haha. Shows how long it has been. I knew there was some reason we were so in love with our chest packs and now I remember why. Filed them up with gorp and munched as we marched along! Not sure how wise that may be with the possibility of bears around. That's something we didn't deal with much in the area we were in back then. Do you use one of these no fed bear barrels?

Know what you mean about the paycheck addiction, pedxing. That's at least part of what has me putting this off to next year. Although, even were money unlimited, I think I really need to do some serious work getting in shape before I start the AT. I need some time to read up and choose some decent gear, too. I'm pretty much starting from scratch on that, and I am continually amazed as I read trail journals the small bits thrown out casually that really influence how I look at various gear items. If I had stuff, I think I'd be more inclined to perhaps put up with whatever imperfections, but since I have to buy anyways, might as well at least attempt to address what issues I can.

Any advice on tents? The one piece of gear I do have on hand is a tarptent conrail or contrail? Something like that. Anyway,it is in good shape, not that heavy, and I'm familiar with it. Thinking it might be best to stick with that for me. Do you carry one of these blowup things for under your sleeping bag? I see many say they auto-inflate and I find I am a mite suspicious of how that holds up. I haven't looked closely at one yet, though, so thought I would see if I can track down some sort of gear show or trail rally to get a good gander at some of them.”

“You do see Jetboil used a fair bit on the trail as well as other canister type stoves and in fact I now use one myself due to problems with my hands - the tremors make it difficult to pour the alcohol into the tea light candle tin burner that I used to use.

Canisters are available at many hiker related facilities (hostels, outfitters, some other stores that hikers use etc.) and often they can be found in hiker boxes (partially filled) - they may not be exactly Jetboil but they will work.

wrt bears - if you keep your food with you at all times as in sleep with your food you will most likely not have any bear problems - its food that is left "undefended" that the bears will go after - if you do decide to bear bag I would probably recommend the PCT method - as for using a bear can - not worth the weight on an AT hike

wrt tents - someone else will need to talk about tents - I used a hammock and tarp - I do however agree that the inflatable pads are a bit of a risk on a long hike but often it is possible to field repair the pad - typically with a spot of Seam Grip - that is IF you can find the hole (one of the few uses for soap on the trail is to find holes in inflatable pads - coat pad with soapy water then squeeze to see the bubbles from the holes) - generally I think more ld hikers carried CCF pads like a Ridgerest or Zrest than carried inflatables but I could be wrong since it was not my thing - during colder times I would use a old army ccf pad that I had trimmed to fit in the hammock to supplement my under quilt”

“I really like this water filter http://www.moontrail.com/sawyer-point-one-inline-filter.php, I would think it would work out well on the AT. It can be used with a platypus style bag.

I'll second the notion that the only real failure is not trying the things you feel important.”

“a couple minor things - spices - I carried cayenne and garlic powder to improve the flavor of my meals - I carried them in small zip bags (2 inch by 3 inch found in craft store in beading area) - these are the same bags I packaged my daily meds in

wrt water I did not use a hydration bladder but went entirely with recycled soda bottles - the wide mouth Mtn. Dew bottles that are no longer available - the wide mouth bottle was just right for the minimal water treatment that I would do - I used a small thin sock to filter the floaties out of the water - I would poke the sock down into the bottle and then pull the cuff of the sock over the top of the bottle - this is IMO the best way cause you get rapid water flow into the bottle. Once the water is in the bottle some hikers would use chemicals (Aqua Mira mostly) to treat the water but I chose to not treat the water and I had no problems - YMMV”

“Tents - I like the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL. I also like the Hennessey Hammock UL. For the multi-week trips I've done, I prefer the Hammock because its easier to find a spot to set up.

For food, I take lots of nuts. I go stoveless - but not sure how that would work if I was hiking 2000+ miles rather than 200+. Go for the max calories/ounce for foods you like. If you cook, I agree 100% with HOI on olive oil. It's perfect for adding flavor and calories (its got more than double the calories per ounce of most foods) - extra virgin olive oil is most flavorful and I try to take it.

For geting in shape, start now. Aside from working out and going on hikes, add in effort to your everyday routine. Carry a pack - throw all kinds of stuff in it you might want to have around and maybe some extra stuff to add weight (rocks and water are good, because you can ditch the weight if it is too much). Take stairs whenever possible, never spend any time avoiding effort (looking for a "better" parking spot).”

“My experience is only with the northern 1/4 of the AT (almost everything north of CT), but based on this area:

IMO - the best strategies around bears and food varies according to the area. Usually I am OK hanging my food in a shelter, and am sometimes OK having the food in a tent with me. There are other areas where this is risky.

I do prefer to be able to treat my water and usually do. There are a few places where the water seems so pristine it seems sad to mess with it. There are other stretches of trail where, under certain conditions, if you avoid the really questionable water you can go without a resupply of water for a day or more.”

“Try that sawyer filter people! Weighs less than 4oz with all the hoses you need and you can backflush it in the field with a regular style water bottle...why take a chance?”

“Great thread. Thanks, everyone.”

“pedxing - I do not fully understand. Water can be treated along the trail as well as in a campsite.

I, too, do not enjoy the weight of the water. I try to carry just enough water to get me to the next-good-source of water. It helps to know the area. If necesary, I can usually continue forward to another source. Once I had to go forward from my campsite to obtain reasonable water.”

“Ok, who hosed the thread???”

“Even if I was using a light weight tent, I would consider taking a small cuben fiber tarp. At about 3 or 4 oz it's pretty useful.

In a really heavy downpour it is absolute added waterproofing to just lay over your tent fly. It gives you quick rain protection to cook under or just for some relief from the constant drizzle while you take a break. It can be an additional vestibule on your tent or serve to block wind and rain on just one side. Prolly even could use it as a makeshift poncho and leave the raingear.”

“cuben fiber tarps are great - light weight and very water proof - if I were to do another long section I would seriously consider getting a cuben fiber tarp for my hammock

Gertie - as you can see from above there are different ways of doing stuff and not everyone will do the stuff the way another would - make your choice and let others make theirs - aka HYOH - all I am saying above is how I did it not that I think it is the way for anyone else to do it

take clothing for example - I am one of a very few hikers that hikes in long pants and long sleeve shirt in the summer (both very light colored or nominally white) - for me this is an advantage because I sunburn easily but most other people go with shorts and a T shirt or less. This also has the advantage for me when it comes to ticks and chiggers - I treat my clothing with permethrin and I did not have any tick or chigger issues. Also I use a patella strap on both knees and by putting the straps over the pant legs they don't irritate the back of my knee which they will do if I put them on under the pants. You won't see may people using a western style brim straw hat on the trail either but I like it for keeping the sun out of my eyes and off of my neck. All of this is just stuff that I do differently and I don't claim it to be better than other approaches.”

“If I'm hiking for more than a couple of days I take one of these.. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001HXMG74/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

When its completely dry it weighs less than 2oz. It will absorb water like crazy. Use it as a towel, to dry cloths, to keep in the tent in case of leaks. Very handy. It would be useful as a bandage or splint if you had a really bad accident. It can be cleaned quickly in boiling water. A truly great piece of gear, imo.”

“Slim - I guess I wasn't being clear. I was trying to say that sometimes you won't find water that doesn't need treating for a long stretch of time - whether at camp sites or on trail and you either will have to drink something questionable (like water that drains from a beaver pond, or relatively stagnant water) or there might be an obivious source of pollution.

Another thing that leads me to want to treat water: one time on the Maine AT we saw a large turd in the stream about 30 feet upstream from where most people would get ther water.”

“Sure a lot of different ways of handling things here, but I think it is good to see the variety. You can pick and choose the hints that fit with your own and arrive at something useful for you.

Would most certainly treat that water. I've seen a backpacker who came to wish he had very strongly a time or two and just don't want that sort of health problem to deal with on a long hike.

I've been giving the steripen with the nalgene with built-in filter a try. Seems to work well enough, but my longest use has been a long weekend. Not sure about the batteries issue on something that long, though it doesn't seem to use them very fast so far.”

“I agree, nice to have people share ideas, cheesypoof! I may not want to do it just like any of you, but I can sure learn something from each of you that will help me or at least give me something to think about.

I'm intrigued by the mention of hammock tents. I saw a few on some of the light gear websites, but thought it would be harder and not easier to locate a place to hang them? Aside from that, do they come with directions how to knot them up properly? I'm just imagining waking to find myself doing a slow slide to the ground because I've done it wrong.”

“No knots Gertie, whoopie slings!”

“there is a bit of a learning curve with hammocks but in general I found it worth it for me because I would get a good comfortable sleep - main disadvantages to hammocks are the need for more insulation on the underside to keep warm and the fact that one will be sleeping alone under most all circumstances (small dogs excepted)

note however they are not significantly lighter than a tent system and generally heavier than a tarp system

wrt finding places for a hammock I have found it easier because all one needs is two trees of reasonable size and about the right distance apart with nothing of any size between them as versus a tent where one wants a flat spot without rocks and roots and is dry - IMO it is the finding a flat spot that is the major factor in limiting spots for tents on the AT and that is a non-issue for hammocks”

“anyways back to hiking stuff

there are a few things that I do to help my knees in addition to the patella straps mentioned above

going down hill if I have to step down one of those tall steps that happen occasionally on the AT I will do what I call a back step - that is done by placing the lead foot down in parallel with the edge of the step then turning sideways to the trail I step backwards and down with the other foot - this is a more controlled step and I find it much easier on my knees than going off the step forward. Sometimes on more moderate steps I will do kinda of a wide step down which is also somewhat easier on the knees than a straight forward step

stretching for knees basically means doing the standing quad stretch and one of the ilio-tibial band stretches - I know its time to start doing the itb stretch when I start getting some pain on the outside of the knee”

“Appreciate the knees info. Had some problems in my teens after an injury, so I've always been extra careful of them since. I usually wear a neoprene sleeve when I ski these days. Not a big deal for snow skiing, but it does give a weird tan line when it is water skiing in the summer.

I'll have to look up those whoopie slings. Now I'm curious. Still think I may stick to the tarptent just for the familiarity on the AT, though. I'm fully expecting to find myself pretty wiped out on more than one evening, and I know my limits.

Just got a peek at something called a "Backcountry Boiler" on youtube. My friend said some kid is making them, but I think he's a tad older than that from viewing his blog. Not sure on the final weight, but the metal parts weigh around 8 ounces. Surely a neoprene sleeve and a stuff sack can't weight that much? It can run off alcohol using a wick or twigs if you run out. I'm really liking the idea of having the options.
Blog post on the firefelt wick trials here: http://www.theboilerwerks.com/2011/08/firefelt-videoed-available-hwp/

Only problem I see is they aren't in full production yet, so no idea when I can order one.”

“A whoopie sling is a 7/64 hollow core amsteel line made into a loop and threaded back thru the hollow center and out to form a constricting hold.
Easy to make yourself. Installed in the gathered ends of the hammock, allows infinite adjusment on either end so you can get your feet or head elevated just the way you like. Light too. You hang the loop over a marin spike hitch on each tree.
So if you decide to hammock, make whoopies!”

“Haha! That made me think of that kids game, sims, 1camper!

Yeah, I watched a movie on how to make whoopie slings. Actually, the more I look at the hammocks, the more I think they might be useful when the hot summer hits.

Just by-the-way, someone should have told me hanging out here I would catch your cooties. Now I am just itching to go for a weekend tramp. I blame it on talking to you all.”

“if desired we could start a "Lets talk about hammocks" thread - biggest problem there is the terminology gets a bit difficult to explain briefly and there are a large number of variations that probably would be worth a mention

wrt the chamois 1Camper mentioned I have been known to pack a Packtowl - a microfiber thing similar to the chamois but when I was ld hiking the AT it stayed at home and I used a bandanna instead - note with the hammock condensation was not a major issue but sometimes the underside of the tarp got wet especially if I was near or over damp ground - the tarp I used was made from SpinnUL which generally was not as retentive of water as Silnylon - often I could just shake the majority of the water off the tarp - I hear that Cuben fiber tarps are much the same way - not very water retentive

bandannas - I carried three - one normally used as a combined sweat band and eyeglasses holder, one for cleaning / drying my pot and spoon, and one for all other uses. I would also use a bandanna as a hot pot gripper - fold bandanna 4 times to get 16 layers of cloth and you can safely handle a pot of boiling water with the resulting pad.

spoon - I used a long handled titanium spoon mainly because I got tired of the plastic spoons breaking or melting - to this day this is my favorite spoon”

“That "absorber" thing is much different than a micro fiber towel.. bigger too.

It's size makes it useful because you can roll wet clothes up in it and virtually wring them dry, or real close.

One time I left my hammock up with ccf pad installed and it got caught in a downpour. I returned to find about 3" of water in it, still raining. I set a tarp over it, tipped the water out, wiped up the remaining water with the absorber and got in with my down bag. The bag didn't get wet at all. Try that with a bandana!”

“as with a lot of stuff in ld hiking its a question of tradeoffs - weight vs usefulness - I agree that the bandanna won't suck up water as fast as the chamois but how often is it _needed_ vs "its nice to have just in case" - if you feel it is needed then carry it ... just saying I didn't feel it was needed everyday and its function was handled good enough by the bandanna - I definitely got wet on the trail - two times I had seven days of rain in a row and one of those times I got rain blowing in end wise under my tarp and the hammock, under quilt and top quilt all got wet - the next night I slept in it anyways and by the morning it was dry - which is basically the way to get anything dry on the AT - keep it next to your body and it will dry - the only exception is when you are pushing hypothermia or your clothing is absolutely soaked then the best thing to do is put the wet stuff aside for the night and dress in the wet stuff in the morning”

“I've noticed how weight-driven a lot of the conversations are. As far as the "just in case" goes, I think it depends on what sort of a "just in case". We all have those random worry moments that hit us, and then there are the items that fit a specific possibility relating to our plans.

I have to say I do have a healthy respect of the good ol' bandanna. Probably comes of my years as a Girl Scout. Essential gear for any activity started with bandanna and a strong piece of cord for your pocket knife.”

“Interesting article I just ran across:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/backpacking_v_thruhiking.html”

“a good article - it says a lot of what I was trying to get at even though I was no light-ultra light weight hiker. basically the lighter you can make your pack with knowledge of how to keep yourself safe with the smaller amount of gear then the more likely you will complete your thru-hike with fewer injuries and more miles per day”

“I'm currently reading one of Francis books.. reading the comments after the article one guy wrote "thru hiking ruined backpacking for me". I worry about that some.

I love backpacking and am not interested in turning it into a sport. I travel light, but I eat good food and carry enough to go far. The goal for me is to enjoy the wilderness, not to hurry to the next town so I can shower. I carry what I need to be comfortable.”

“I think that brings up a good point. There is such a thing as just too much junk, but there is also such a thing as being reasonable about comfort.”

“Hey, I've never hiked any large part of the AT but I hear reasonable comfort is out the window on a thru.. or could you carry some extra stuff and avoid stopping so much in town?
Many of the strategies you think you might use are out the window too.. best probably to hike a couple hundred miles to see how they work for you, but I really hate to go anywhere without my small frying pan. lol.”

“Funny you should mention that, 1camper. I was just drooling over a camp cookware set and thinking to myself I might like to have one of these where you have one handle and then two items that can either be a small pot and a skillet, or a pot with a lid. Why is it I keep finding websites that want me to buy some useless, expensive set just to get those three pieces? I typically don't eat candy bars or ramen, even backpacking.

I have thought I might do better on the trail if I don't go into every single little town we come nearest. But then you have to carry more food. Perhaps it might be wisest to try to keep food to freeze dried, dried, and lightweight foods for the first 1/4 and then add in a nice pot somewhere between quarter and half way though when I shift to a lighter sleeping bag so that I keep the weight similarly low.”

“just checking”

“Hey Gertie, just don't fall for non-stick titanium...it doesn't exist!”

“Yeah, I wondered about all these cookware wonders.

Saw an interesting show on the weather channel today. They were testing various gear against the weather. You sort of know some of the stuff if you've ever been camping, but it was interesting to see it tested and quantified. For example, they had a 40 degree bag and a -25 degree bag. Stuck them in a zero degree and windy test and showed the heat scan images. They also did some wind and water tests on tents and on rain gear. I was already planning to buy some better rain gear. After watching that, I'm definitely going to save my pennies for some really good rain gear. I hate being soggy.”

“Not at all attractive but light, dead waterproof and dual purpose:

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=56

I have a really nice event fabric rain jacket, great for hiking but way too heavy for AT thru hiking.. and not dual purpose. All stuff you have to consider. Many things would be thru hiking specific and trashed when it's over, so don't spend too much.”

“Hm. Rain chaps. Seems like a good idea, at least until you set down.”

“I have what I am guessing is probably some form of a silly question, since I have looked at a lot of trek poles and not seen this option yet.

Why can't I get a decent pair with some form of hollow handles? I'm not talking a large space. Maybe space enough for a a few waterproof matches and some wax-soaked cotton balls in one. A couple pieces of moleskin, a needle and thread, some string in the other. Something of that nature. It just sort of bothers me to have items that are so nearly one-note right there in my hands. Although yes, I realize my tarptent utilizes them, if I chose to carry some other form of tent, they're really be one note!”